“Inequality is so real and so deep that you are never completely satisfied. You look ahead and see that there is much to be done. Nevertheless, I am always going to live in the present and enjoy it. We have to acknowledge that in Spain, during the past year, we have done things and taken steps that are very important, and it has been a very intense experience for me.” - María Antonia Martínez

iKNOW Politics: To begin, could you tell us what challenges you have faced as a woman in political leadership, having been elected Senator twice? How have your background and prior experience helped you? 

I have always considered myself a feminist, and as I have advanced in political life I have become more and more a feminist. I have had various responsibilities in the public sphere and in the labour movement. I have worked in different areas: I have been responsible for economics and finance, and for autonomous relations; I have been a Member of Parliament, vice president of Parliament and president of an autonomous government.

I have always devoted equal intensity to public affairs and to the commitment to move toward the right to equal treatment and equal opportunity for every woman, always. In the past year, I have found the greatest satisfaction in the legislative arena. Laws are being drafted by the government and by the opposition, and it is gratifying to know that including a paragraph or an article means a big step forward in equal treatment and equal opportunity for women. With these advances, it will be easier for women to balance family life, personal life and work. Inequality is so real and so deep that you are never completely satisfied. You look ahead and see that there is much to be done.

Nevertheless, I am always going to live in the present and enjoy it. We have to acknowledge that in Spain, during the past year, we have done things and taken steps that are very important, and it has been a very intense experience for me. I believe that one important challenge, and I like to call it that instead of an obstacle, is to be a woman, mother, and wife or partner. You take that responsibility with you, wherever you go and whatever you do, and this weighs on us. We always have to deal with it, although we sometimes want to rationalise and think that it is not just our responsibility, but a responsibility shared with the partner.

We have a cultural weight, a role attributed to us from the time we are girls, that assumes caring for others — I mean a partner, children, parents, and family responsibilities in general. There is an intertwining of family obligations, even though in Spain we have modified the Civil Code, redefining even the concept of marriage and dividing responsibility evenly. In the places where I have lived and worked, I don’t know any woman who does not bear this burden, even though she is involved in the nitty-gritty work and has a very firm commitment.

iKNOW Politics: Some organisations are analysing why the percentages of women re-elected to political office are qualitatively low in comparison to men. A recent Spanish study is called, “Men are in politics; women pass through it.” You are a woman politician who not only has stood for re-election, but has won. What is your opinion of these statistics that show such low rates of re-election for women? How would you explain this phenomenon?

In my experience, I believe the cause of this phenomenon lies in the lack of women’s involvement in politics, in partisan politics, in the politics that is learned by participating in political parties. Ultimately, in electoral processes, decisions about the makeup of the candidate lists — who runs for election, who runs for re-election, who doesn’t — are made by political parties. I believe that as women, we are not in the political party apparatus. My case is an example. I have held various positions, but with stability and continuity. In fact, I have been able to choose whether or not to continue.

I have had a long political career and have been Secretary General of the Partido Socialista Español (PSOE) in my region. When you’re in politics, it’s the party that defines things. Whenever I have the chance, I tell other women in the party that every area — family, youth, culture, education — is important, and they should take on those responsibilities. But I also encourage them to take on the responsibility of secretary of organisation for the party and that they serve as secretaries general of their groups. We women must empower ourselves. We have to take power if we are to exercise it.

When men have the power, they exercise it for you. They call on women because it’s useful or convenient, because they want to create an image of openness, an image that their list is more democratic. We know that the distribution of power comes later. For example, in parliamentary functions — if you look one by one at the parliamentary bodies, such as commissions or leadership groups in the Congress and the Senate, you can see that women are on commissions and in secretariats, but very few are vice presidents or presidents. Why? Because power, the exercising of political power, is still very masculine. That is why it is important that more and more women decide to stay in politics.

That is one of the goals, and I believe it is worth fighting for. The Inter-Parliamentary Union does splendid work that has a long-term effect. Its functions include empowering women and helping them recognise where power lies and how to exercise and use it for the common good and the good of women in particular.

iKNOW Politics: Although the distribution of power is clearly unequal, women do need the support of men to achieve equality. In your experience, what do you believe are the best strategies for including men in processes of advancing toward gender equality, especially in the area of political participation?

It is obvious that equality is not a women’s problem; it’s a general problem. I believe that as some men become “accomplices” and the issue becomes a cause, a fight for equality, with men standing side by side with women, the progress is more significant. We have seen this happen in Spain, and while it may sound a little pretentious to mention it, I am very proud. In the PSOE, the party to which I belong, there has been an ongoing process, though not without difficulties, because the feminist-socialist school of thought arose in Spain very soon after the Socialist Party began to function.

By lobbying and forming a pressure group, feminist women have been working and getting the various party congresses to pass resolutions to encourage women’s participation. In fact, the PSOE was the first to impose an internal quota. This rose from 25 percent to 30 percent. Men have made progress in this process, too, because ultimately all of these resolutions have been adopted by all party bodies — men have voted for them and approved them. What has happened now? We’ve made a qualitative leap forward. We have moved from an internal quota to establishing a reform in the electoral law, where, going beyond the quota concept, we have promoted a balance between men and women candidates, understanding that women’s participation in politics — and we are more than half the population in my country — helps enrich democracy.

I believe that the alliance between men and women has been very important; of course, so is the commitment of one man, who is a feminist and who has made the defence of women a priority: José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, president of the PSOE and president of Spain. He is one of many men in the PSOE who have grown and understood that equality is a challenge, because there has always been inequality. This is especially important in a party like ours, which traditionally has dedicated itself to fighting inequalities. In Spain we see something that is also happening in other countries.

There is a sort of synergy; when a party includes women’s participation as a democratic value, other parties feel obliged to follow suit, even if they don’t share the idea. It becomes a virtuous circle: when one takes a step forward, the others must follow suit, because all citizens are watching them. There is a serious commitment in Spain, although the work is not finished yet, because it is a long struggle. But it seems to me that the partnership between men and women is crucial if we are to make progress.

iKNOW Politics: In your last response, you mention women’s participation in Spain. Could you give us some more detail about the current state of women’s political participation, both in political parties and in the legislative and executive branches?

The Equality Law that was passed in 2007 is a big step forward at all levels, because it is the guiding rule that establishes the obligation for everyone, not just public powers, but also in the world of culture, education, the arts, business, trade unions, to empower women and ensure their equitable participation. The law says that neither sex can represent more than 60 percent or less than 40 percent. Despite constitutional challenges to this reform, the Constitutional Court has upheld it. This is a process in which progress will occur over time. In the public sphere, in the last autonomous and municipal elections, with the new electoral regime, 7,000 new women won local government offices.

So right now, more than 23,000 women are serving as mayors or councilwomen. In the business sector, the law allows for years to incorporate women into management bodies. This is considered very audacious, since the law was entering into the private sphere. But the state has some tools for doing that, like requiring equality plans. Although I can’t give you the total figure, public contracting in Spain is very significant. It includes not only services, but also infrastructure, highways, railroads, water treatment, all sanitation, public works, and other things. When the law on government contracting was passed, it included a measure for helping companies meet the requirements for winning a contract, and only companies that have equality plans will get contracts. That gives us an idea of how many are going to draw up plans, right?

There are thousands of companies that bid on these kinds of works. This is the way equality becomes a cross-cutting issue. The highest participation is in legislatures, and that is true in autonomous communities, in municipalities and at the overall level. We still need to work on the other powers. In the judiciary, there are still very few women. In Spain, right now, more than 50 percent of judges are women, but there are very few women on the Supreme Court, although the president of the Constitutional Court is a woman. The judiciary needs renewal, as do the armed forces, the Economic and Social Council, the Court of Audit, and other bodies.

iKNOW Politics: Spain’s Equality Law is very advanced. This shows that in Spain, there has been a structured, systematic process in this area. In what socio-political context did the law arise? Has the bicameral parliamentary commission on women’s rights and equal opportunity been key?

Women’s organisations, both feminist groups and others that took up the feminist cause, have played a key role. Women’s groups in the political parties, the PSOE and Izquierda Unida, decided to continue the feminist efforts, which was a very important step in Spain. Some key decisions, such as the creation of the Women’s Institute shortly after democracy was established, and later the formation of the joint commission on women’s rights and equal opportunity (1988), which just marked its 20th anniversary, came about thanks to the commitment of many men and women.

Men with a great deal of weight and long political careers gave the commission prestige, as did the work of women who had recently reached positions of power. Now there are many women on it, but at the beginning there was approximate gender equality. Both the Institute and the Commission have been unstoppable. Two powers, one in the executive branch (the Institute) and the other a legislative commission, have drafted very serious proposals and been catalysts for important social changes.

We have to keep in mind that in Spain, right now, we are implementing the fourth equality plan. We have worked with these plans for many years. The difference is that this plan, besides supporting and encouraging, also intervenes, as I mentioned before. Meanwhile, Article 14 of our Constitution, which is almost 30 years old, states the principle of equality and non-discrimination. There is another imperative mandate, aimed at all public powers: to foster conditions for real equality and promote the political, economic, social and cultural participation of all citizens. But as I said before, the qualitative leap has come during the government of President Rodríguez Zapatero.

It is an entirely new culture that is being imposed in the highest spheres of political power. The minister of labour said that the Constitution cannot remain outside the doors of education, businesses, trade unions. The Constitution applies not only to public life, but also to private life. The Equality Law is powerful. The most difficult part, which will take the most time, is to bring about the social changes that are needed. The problem of inequality has to do with the machismo that is deeply rooted in society, in the dominant culture in my country and the countries around it. Intervention in education is crucial, as are preventive measures. This is also a “code law.”

We call it that because it has modified 24 of the country’s laws, many of them organic laws. The workers’ statute, the organic law for the judiciary, the law on government contracting, the civil code, social security and others were modified. There has been a complete overhaul, and new rights have been introduced. I should also mention financial support. The law went into the federal courts with a budget of 400 million Euros, and came out with 490 million Euros allocated. With this law as a foundation, we have an executive and legislative agenda for the next 10 years.

iKNOW Politics: In Spain, there is no women’s parliamentary caucus. Do you think such a body is always necessary? Or in the case of Spain, does the mixed parliamentary commission on women’s rights and equal opportunity serve as a women’s caucus?

No, in Spain we do not have what is known in Latin America as a women’s caucus. The joint commissions in Parliament are made up of 42 members, men and women, from both chambers. In the joint commission on women’s rights and equal opportunity, there is a great spirit of consensus, because the issues we raise are very important, such as the right to equality, which is a human right. There are political differences. Consensus is easily reached, however, because there is a great deal of complicity in the commission among the women from all of the parties.

It is a standing, not a legislative, commission, but it must understand the legislation that is being developed in all the commissions, It has the power to intervene in any and all issues that are being dealt with in all parliamentary commissions. It is a commission that examines all preliminary matters and the drafting of laws. People are called to testify — not only government officials, but also social and economic stakeholders. Various groups come. On the one hand, the commission has the task of overseeing and monitoring government agencies’ implementation of matters related to gender equality and equal treatment and opportunity. Another task is to study, research and make proposals to both the government and other parliamentary commissions. For example, there was an excellent presentation on prostitution in Spain, and a 37-point plan was submitted to the executive branch. Besides providing a type of legislative oversight, the commission also has a relationship with society, which is the source of the real problems to which legislation must respond. Its work in this area is very effective.

iKNOW Politics: Looking beyond the particular characteristics of each country, what basic steps would you recommend to women in Parliament to establish an advanced system for women’s equality and political participation?

I believe that the problems we have in different places are very similar. I have heard many Latin American women parliamentarians from different countries say they want to change the system. That is a very lofty goal. I think you should start with something simpler — something like making the system confront itself, because it is important to look at the theoretical framework and the political commitments to which Latin American countries have agreed, most recently in the Quito Consensus. If there are agreements, that is great.

Practically all the Latin American countries have signed the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women and its optional protocol. There are also other treaties and resolutions by the Latin American Parliament. In the area of violence, we have the Inter-American Convention to Prevent, Sanction and Eradicate Violence against Women (the Convention of Belém do Pará). In other words, there is not just doctrine, there is also political commitment. With these tools, each Parliament must confront its government. It’s not a matter of asking for the moon; it’s a matter of demanding implementation of the international commitments that Latin American countries have signed.

Often, the things that are discussed have already been resolved and approved by the governments, so it’s a matter of working for regulations for implementing them. Although I cannot express an opinion about any country’s system, I would advise them to make the system confront itself, to put their governments, their presidents, face to face with the international commitments they have made.

iKNOW Politics: What kind of influence have networks and networking had on your career? Do you believe they are useful? In that context, what is your opinion of the iKNOW Politics initiative?

I believe that networking is extremely important. Information and education are essential. No one comes to professional life or a life of commitment without knowledge. You cannot love or appreciate what you do not know. From my own experience over many years, I see that there is a lack of information. For many women in Parliament, and I am speaking of parliamentarians who do not understand the ins and outs of the rights and obligations that are recognised in their countries, it is difficult to make demands or follow up these issues because they don’t know much about them. Initiatives such as iKNOW Politics are very important.

First, the person who is interested has the opportunity to learn about good practices in other countries, evaluate them and decide whether they apply to the socio-political or socio-economic situation in their own country. We can also share information about our own experiences. The platform can be used to discuss the development of laws, receive recommendations and suggestions, etc. Social change does not happen overnight, nor does it come about the day after a law takes effect. It needs constant attention, and I believe that initiatives such as this help us support each other.

iKNOW Politics: What suggestions would you have for young women who are interested in getting involved in politics, but who feel it is a distant world that is beyond their reach?

We women today have no objective reason to feel overwhelmed. There are many women who have learned; education and culture are not foreign to us. We know there are countries where there are still major obstacles, but we women have everything a human being needs to participate in and commit to social changes in our environment: education, commitment and enthusiasm for changing things. There are many ways to participate in politics. The vote is one decisive element, but it simply reflects one person’s position. It is important, but I would encourage them to really become part of the power apparatus, which is what makes things go forward or backward.

I believe that we women have a great deal to do and to contribute, socially and politically. It is clear that some masculine roles have run their course. Politics also needs new ways of looking at things, based on real needs, voices that speak about the real problems of men and women. Women, perhaps because we are more oppressed, are more down to earth and have a view of reality that sees problems and needs much more clearly, and a greater ability to find solutions.

iKNOW Politics: Is there anything else you would like to say to the people who will read this interview?

I have always felt very close to the fight for equality, wherever it is. I am drawn to working for women’s equality in all areas. In my life, I have fought every inequality I have seen, wherever it has been. I always get involved with the same enthusiasm, whether it is inequality in the tax system, in education or in health. I think it is worth working to improve people’s quality of life, so they will be happier. Ultimately, that is the goal of socialism, and above all, I am a socialist woman.